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Civility
Scott Neal, February 14, 2013 | Posted in Scott Neal
There is a larger societal discussion going on in America today about public civility. The argument generally seems to circle not around the concept of civility, but more around what it means to be uncivil or rude or a bully. There are times when the discussion of civility, which I believe is important, sometimes supercedes the discussion of the public policy issue that was the point of the discussion in the first place.
I think that most people would agree that the use of profanity in a public policy discussion, especially when it is directed against another participant in that discussion, is uncivil. But what about sarcasm, humor and low level snarkyness. Would most people agree that those communications styles are uncivil? I don’t know.
We’re addressing this issue right now at the staff level over a couple of discussion threads going on at our Speak Up, Edina public engagement tool on our website. Check it out. I’d be interested in some feedback on this issue in this space. You don’t have to use examples in your feedback. Just tell me what you think of the general level of civility there.
More later…
11 Responses to Civility
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In general sarcasm and snarkiness doesn’t help. I think most of us know when we are doing it and could easily enough make a different choice.
One idea behind the First Amendment is that the expression bad ideas is better handled by the expression of good ideas. Suppression, aka censorship is anathema to a productive exchange in the public sphere. By who’s definition will we define “snarkyness?” You, or me? If we are going to become snarky czars, then with all respect, I prefer it be me. Otherwise, let people post so long as the post is not obscene (we know it when we see it) and let the discussion weed out the snark perpetrator.
Some wit is good and can be entertaining. In these recent posts, it’s not witty or entertaining. It’s painfully unpleasant, mean spirited, rude and incessant piling on. These clumsy, failed attempts at sarcasm are crude and even vulgar and have the effect of reducing participation by others.
There are people will always use public forums as a way to somehow show off their imagined wit, perhaps not realizing or caring that they shut down discussions. Or they like to shut it down. It’s their power trip? It is effective at shutting down discussions. Who needs the hassle?
They are not engaging in a discussion, they are performing or attacking. It is the role of a moderator to provide, promote, and encourage a welcoming discussion space. They can do this by moderating posts at various levels or restricting certain posters or contacting them privately to advise them of expected behavior and invite their suggestions about how to improve discussions.
It’s also a good idea for posters to refuse to engage with vulgar, crude satirical posters. Maybe then they will go somewhere else, and the city discussion zone can be free of their unhelpful, negative, discussion ending inputs.
From what it seems to me, the “snark” was in direct response to a couple individuals that use this and other sites to air personal grievances as opposed to discussing the issues. They do this in a bullying way, and the only way to respond to an online bully is through satire (a word used by someone in a discussion and one I agree with). What you may not know is that many posters here also post in a Facebook group called “politics in Edina” which has more recently become very anti-development to the point that they actually post pictures of properties online and then attack them etc. Is that civil? Or is that being a bully? I cheer those who use the power of their words to fight back ( without profanity).
How civil is it to initiate a conservation by listing someone’s address and then make several disparaging comments about the property and the builder? Does this behavior qualify as bullying? There seems to be a double standard.
When someone initiates a public conversation by attacking, does he not open himself to criticism? And who is to decide what form of criticism is appropriate?
Tom LaForce who posted above actually runs Politics in Edina. In all fairness, generally on that site he tries to be fair, although posting pictures of houses is pretty crude. It’s really other posters on that and speakupedina that are the issue.
And I’m sorry Susan, but bullies always whine when people fight back. Only way to stop a bully is to fight back. Period. Full Stop.
Arguing over non-profane wording is like shooting ropes…it’s entertaining but at end of day you are just covered with the seeds of discontent…as long as no profanity all shoudl be well and encouraged…people just have different styles
Brock, I’m a fan of both fairness and accuracy. I need to correct the statement that I’m posting pictures of houses. There are not pictures of multiple properties on PIE. I’ve posted a picture of one house, a house that is currently empty and will be torn down. I plan on posting pictures of the redevelopment process for this one property only. It’s not my intention to start snapping photos of houses all over town.
Since you are a reader of PIE, perhaps you missed the following post that describes this effort. https://www.facebook.com/PoliticsInEdina/posts/10151736214454951
Ok perhaps “A Teardown Tale 1″ and “A Teardown Tale 2″ are the same property; that being said one is too many as you are putting the potential new owners in the spotlight in my opinion. And the spotlight is viewed by your followers that include quite a few scary people. But again as I said above I was not really blaming you but some of the posters that jump in on various specific properties.
Look, do what you want (obviously), I’m just saying that this type of activity is much worse than a little snark hurting some bullies’ feelings.
There should not be any censorship of posts unless there is a profanity. We are not China or Iran – we are in the USA!
From Government Technology Magazine:
What Does Your Lawyer Want You to Know About Social Media?
http://www.govtech.com/e-government/What-Does-Your-Lawyer-Want-You-to-Know-About-Social-Media.html